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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Av-merican wrote:
Fogghorn wrote:
Crap, Benning/Linden presser today. Seems they are both on board that this team can be quickly turned around and are not interested in a rebuild. Damn, their possession last year indicates that this is reasonably possible, but its still an aging team with a shot at the playoffs but no shot at the cup. I'm afraid they're going to be just avoiding the inevitable, their core is getting older, will have even less trade value and when rebuild time comes it will take a lot longer.


I dunno, maybe they won't be contenders, but do you really want to strip it bare? The Sedins certainly can't be moved, and Burrows likely doesn't have any trade value. Everyone knew the Avs' days of contention ended the day Forsberg and Foote left town, but they still managed to make a decent go of it with Sakic, Hejduk, and some spare parts. So long as they don't make the huge mistake the Avs did and try to plug all the holes with a couple big signings, it might be possible to turn the ship around quickly. And if not, meh, at least your team was still fun to watch.

I think tanking should only be embraced when it's clear there's no real core any longer. That was definitely the case in Buffalo, I don't think that's the case in Vancouver though.


We've had this conversation before. The problem with the Nucks is that have a very good core but over 30, then between 25-30 (the prime for players) there is really nothing besides Edler. They're going to collapse really, really quickly in a couple years. That's a Gillis mistake. If they had continued to consistently find and develop players like SJ has I'd have no problem with filling a few holes.

And you had the memory of a cup to carry you through the mediocre and tough times. I'm sick and tired of glorifying past teams that made it to the finals and fell short. I want my team to win the SC once in my life and if the team doesn't have a serious shot then imo it's time to blow it up and start over.

I have no problem keeping Burrows and the Sedins and perhaps Bieksa, need players like that to teach the youngin's but after that they can all go.

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:45 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Sedins and perhaps Bieksa, need players like that to teach the youngin's but after that they can all go.
Add one more name to this list - and that's your old school core still in tact. Maybe Kesler, maybe Hamhuis - but that's about it. Any transition will take 3-5 years minimum if all goes exceedingly well and it's not just rebuild or bust. I might be in the minority, but I am actually excited about the changes going on within the organization. From what I got today was that Benning means business and won't mess around if the team isn't successful in the short/ midterm. That's about all we can ask for as fans at this point.

At the end of the day, this is a business and the Canucks need to sell hope to their fan base. Not only will a full fledged rebuild not fly in this market, Linden/ Benning (L/B) couldn't even do it even if they wanted to (no trade clauses). They need to build a winning culture again and sell it to a waning fan base. Yes there were empty seats last year - lots of empty seats. But L/B also need to be pragmatic given the limitations from which they have to work. The scouting staff and management need to do a better job of surrounding the so called "core" with a more skilled and talented supporting cast. My sense from today is that they will do this through Benning's drafting experience (a weakness of GMMG) and trades and stronger player development and though building more accountability from the bottom to the top of the roster.

Unfortunately, conventional media rhetoric in a situation such as the Canucks are facing is very polarizing. It's either the Chicago model or the Calgary model, or the Edmonton model with no inbetween. Yet look at Boston, LA, SJ, Anaheim. Sure they all sucked for a couple of years but they had strong drafting and solid player development. Very few teams fit into one particalar "model". It's a constantly evolving process between experience/ youth, mentoring/ apprencticeship and being aware of how the game is changing from year to year given rule changes and player safety. We always try to characterize a team as "such and such" in order to rationalize their shortcomings - "if the Canucks keep the core and don't move Kesler, they are they are botching it precisely like Calgary did with Iginla." But in reality, how symmetrical are these situations? We tend to extrapolate generalizations based on unconnected circumstances between teams, with team personel and cultures that are completelely unique -- then try to draw comparisons in order to make sense of what needs to be done based on conflated circumstances.

Do the Canucks need to get younger, bigger, faster and tougher? Yes - but all teams do. They need to build a vision that all the players will buy into and play for each other for provided by stronger direction and support from within management.

Benning won't put up with any shit and will do what's best for building a winning culture again. That's all we can ask for. And change is good. I believe he has strong drafting pedigree and solid foundations for player development background.

At the very least, Benning has earned the right to run this team the way he sees fit and I am willing ot give him a chance.

At least he open to using advanced stats and analytics as one component in their organizational analysis having never really adopted that before.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:27 am 
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You're just not gonna tank with the Sedins and Burrows playing well. You just won't.

Of course if the next guy plays those three for ungodly minutes each game until they break down like Torts did, that won't be a factor.

One thing you have to hope came out of this whole debacle is that ownership learned their lesson about pushing for a specific coaching candidate.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:40 am 
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SC winners basically have one thing in common. They have a couple elite level players (top 3 in the league in their position) and another 3 players or so that are all-star level. The Canucks no longer have any elite level players and only Hank and Hamhuis would be possible all-star level. (Daniel most certainly isn't based on his last 1.5 years of play). Boston and SJ, continued to find those level of players and don't have the big hole in the 25-30 year old range. The next realistic player with that kind of potential is Shinkaruk and that's it. Despite what our fantastically imaginative fan-base thinks, Horvat projects as a third line centre and won't play in the NHL for two to four years.

Selling off everyone and I mean everyone, (Hansen, Garrison, Higgins) 28 years of age or older, of any value that will return picks and prospects while they still have value makes more sense to me then watching the team slowly deteriorate and waiting until the players have little trade value. Replace them with players off the free agent scrap heap or players whose contracts are bloated and the team is willing to trade prospects they wish to get rid of (no longer than 4 years ex// Ville Leino) as long as they are accompanied by picks. And Tommy, Henrik, a ghost of Daniel and Burrows won't salvage the team if the other three lines are made up of 4th liners. and Tanev, Bieksa, Corrado, Stanton and Alberts are the top 5 dmen. (although I'd be okay with trading Bieksa as well)

And yes there are a lot of players who have a NTC but I suspect they'd be willing to go to a contender rather than suffer through a rebuild. They're getting old and would like to win a SC.

I don't think the majority of the fans would have a problem with a rebuild. As you mentioned LP, as long as there is hope. The fan base was very excited last year with Horvat and Shinkaruk draft. A rebuild just has to be addressed openly and honestly. Last year was supposed to be a "reset" and it turned into a wasted year and that turned the fanbase off as we watched them flounder and Torts playing the likes of Hansen ahead of rather than develop Kassian.

If they continue as is, with the same core it will be a much longer rebuild. It takes a long time for players to develop unless they are truly elite. And the best way to find really elite players is to draft in the top 3 picks. And that long played out scenario will cost ownership more $ than a quicker rebuild

So sum up, there is no elite talent in the pipeline. Very little talent in the 25-30 year age group. It's a team that maybe gets one or two more kicks at the playoffs and then will suck badly for 5-7 years. Then a couple years after that emerge as playoff contenders and another year or two after that as SC potential. I don't want to wait a decade for another team capable of running for the SC. Sell off now and getting the best returns for the players will shorten that by 3 -4 years. They need to just accept they can no longer win a cup and choose to step off the cliff rather then slowly roll downhill and drag it out. And 2015 is a great year to begin, a generational talent in McDavid and a couple players in Hanafin and Eichel that would be probable #1 picks in other years. It's a really strong draft at the top.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:03 pm 
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David Booth takes one to the jewels :haha:

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/06/05/breaking-news-david-booth-takes-a-slackline-to-the-groin-video/

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:38 pm 
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Solidarity or smoke screen for Edler?

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/06/05 ... -thinking/

He is due to have a bounce back season.

Quote:
There isn’t a team in the league that wouldn’t have its hand up for the opportunity to have an Alex Edler. It’s not in our consideration. We want to work with Alex and we have to get his game back and I know he’s committed to doing that. Part of our job is to recapture the Alex Edler that we all know he can be. He has the skill set that every team wants and we just have to get him back where he should be.

Two words:

Minus.
Thirty-nine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Logical Progression wrote:
Solidarity or smoke screen for Edler?

http://blogs.theprovince.com/2014/06/05 ... -thinking/

He is due to have a bounce back season.

Quote:
There isn’t a team in the league that wouldn’t have its hand up for the opportunity to have an Alex Edler. It’s not in our consideration. We want to work with Alex and we have to get his game back and I know he’s committed to doing that. Part of our job is to recapture the Alex Edler that we all know he can be. He has the skill set that every team wants and we just have to get him back where he should be.

Two words:

Minus.
Thirty-nine.


Or in other than 2 words, #886 out of 886 players.

He just had amazingly bad luck last year. Canuck's army has an excellent breakdown on his year. http://canucksarmy.com/2014/4/25/alexander-edler-s-green-jacket-weekend-watchability-index

Put Bieksa back with Hamhuis and Tanev with Edler and he'll be very good again. Hopefully Stanton can compensate for Garrison.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:33 pm 
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So Kesler apparently still wants to be traded. Please.......maybe this will be enough to convince Linden & Benning that this team cannot be quickly turned around.

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/6/7/ryan-kesler-apparently-still-wants-to-be-traded


Hamphus Lindholm and the quacks 10th would be good, Sami Vatenen would be even better, please, please, please.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:19 pm 
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That's a good thing. It's one of few strong short term moves that Canucks can make to shift the rebuild and make a real impact. Apparantly Anaheim and Pittsburgh are favoured destinations although Pittsburgh may have changed due to recent shakeup.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:47 pm 
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It's nice to find an article whose author addresses the same concerns I have (the lack of talent between ages 20-28) Good write up on Benning's options
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/how-will-the-canucks-use-the-no-6-pick/

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:33 pm 
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:haha: :haha:

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/6/17/shawn-thornton-open-to-joining-canucks

Trev if you do this I will instantly and forever lose all faith that you have any clue what you are doing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:39 pm 
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I expect a Western Canadian (plus Toronto) bidding war for Thornton. All of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton will be in on him. Not sure about Winnipeg.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:11 pm 
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saskhab wrote:
I expect a Western Canadian (plus Toronto) bidding war for Thornton. All of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton will be in on him. Not sure about Winnipeg.


Bidding war? Man the only bid I would make is to inflict him upon my enemies. He'd look really good in Flames red and all that truculence would make Burke happy.

On the other hand he'd be a good addition in the drive to draft McDavid so maybe the Nucks should take him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:52 pm 
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saskhab wrote:
I expect a Western Canadian (plus Toronto) bidding war for Thornton. All of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton will be in on him. Not sure about Winnipeg.


Winnipeg's not in on anyone. Ever.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:04 am 
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Fogghorn wrote:
saskhab wrote:
I expect a Western Canadian (plus Toronto) bidding war for Thornton. All of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton will be in on him. Not sure about Winnipeg.


Bidding war? Man the only bid I would make is to inflict him upon my enemies. He'd look really good in Flames red and all that truculence would make Burke happy.

On the other hand he'd be a good addition in the drive to draft McDavid so maybe the Nucks should take him.
No way! Please...... :x


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Lu and Eddie continue to amuse me.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/08/22/roberto-luongo-answers-eddie-lacks-ice-bucket-challenge/

Everytime Lu makes me laugh, which is everytime he tweets, the next thought to cross my mind is FU Torts and MG!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:07 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Lu and Eddie continue to amuse me.

http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2014/08/22/roberto-luongo-answers-eddie-lacks-ice-bucket-challenge/

Everytime Lu makes me laugh, which is everytime he tweets, the next thought to cross my mind is FU Torts and MG!


Absolutely spot on.

Labour Day - Hockey is in the air. :toot:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Canucks sellout streak ends tomorrow.............hmm pretty bizarre thing to announce

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/10/17/canucks-sellout-streak-ends-when-no-one-shows-up-for-secret-friday-afternoon-home-game/

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:22 pm 
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Fogghorn wrote:
Canucks sellout streak ends tomorrow.............hmm pretty bizarre thing to announce

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2014/10/17/canucks-sellout-streak-ends-when-no-one-shows-up-for-secret-friday-afternoon-home-game/


I think they announced it because everyone knew that last year they were bs attendance figures some nights. It's a way of breaking with the past and starting over. :buddha:

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:09 am 
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Wow, according to this, Sbisa's not just bad, he's a tire fire on skates.

http://canucksarmy.com/2014/10/24/canuc ... -be-damned

I shouldn't take pleasure from the failure of a young man's career, but keep in mind that was originally the Avs pick the Flyers used to select him way back when.


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